I'm not claiming him guilty or not guilty until I get more info. Then I'll make my decision.
I respect your position. I disagree with it, and that, naturally, is OK. Sandusky and his attorney made a colossal error in judgment in having him interview with Costas. The things he has admitted to are disturbing, in and of themselves. Perhaps they are not criminal (or as criminal) as what he is accused of, but the vast majority of reasonable people would view him as a sick individual, based simply on what he has admitted to doing.
As for Paterno and others, they are not sick, and in my opinion they bear significant responsibilty in not dealing with what was going on for years.
Basically, everyday that something new comes out it gets worse for Sandusky, Paterno and everyone at PSU. Just a horrible situation.
Posted on 11/17 10:26 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by crossoveryp: Point taken Cory, and if you're right then they made the right choice by firing him.
So I assume you believe Sandusky is automatically guilty even though there has been no fair trial. It has only been 9 days since the charges were made and he is denying the charges. Yet many are already wanting him hanged, fire JoePa, fire this person, fire that person. What if these 8 young men are lying? I'm not saying they are, but there is that small chance they are. They may be telling the complete truth. And if they are, let Sandusky fry in hell. If JoePa is guilty of withholding anything, then let him fry too.
However, it's amazing how the press can break a story and the masses quickly come to judgment when all we have are allegations. No proof of any wrongdoing as of now. Again, he may be guilty as Hitler, but let's allow the court system to get the facts and make a verdict. Then act accordingly.
That's my take. I just think its foolish to make assumptions when all facts have not been given. And I also believe that's what Coach K was saying, but maybe I'm wrong there too.
Yes, I am assuming he is guilty based on the info I've heard, what he has said, and the testimony I've read. He definitely deserves a fair trail and some retribution if the charges are false. However, he took showers with kids, touched their thighs (I mean, WTH??), and hugged them while nude. Those are facts he has admitted to. Considering that, it is difficult to not make assumptions or grant him much of a pardon even if he didn't do more than that.
Posted on 11/17 10:28 AM | IP: Logged
Here are some points I've been thinking. McQueary sent out an email and the media got a hold of it. In that email he states that he went to the police. Yesterday the police (both campus and city) claimed they don't have any records of him doing so. McQueary is the only "eye witness" to a crime. Finally, in the Grand Jury report it says that McQueary's statements are said to be believable.
With that said, how can he be trusted/believable? He lied to everyone saying he went to the police, when in fact he did not. All the prosecution has to do now is make McQueary out to be a liar. Once the jury finds out that he lies, what makes his statement believabe about witnessing the attack more so than going to the police? It shouldn't. Then the rest of the case would be "he said, she said."
Do I have a point? Or what are your thoughts about that?
Posted on 11/17 12:50 PM | IP: Logged
^He is not the only eye witness. There are the two janitors who also saw something on a different occasion. I think the suggestion (unintended) of your post is that there is a cover up going on, which includes the police.
Also, McQueary told the person at PSU who presides over the campus police, so perhaps that is "telling the police" in his mind. In any case, the article linked here is pretty informative and well written.
Link: cover-up? Posted on 11/17 12:55 PM | IP: Logged
What a mess. I can't see how it can get much worse. Personally I pray for justice and for all the victims. PSU will never recover from this as though it looks right now. If allegations are true just how many victims are really out there? What are their lives going to be like. What about the good leaders of youth? They are so much needed in today's society. What if they decide not to be scout leaders or youth coaches. What if our youths parents keep their kids from being involved in youth sports and such things as scouting for fear that the leader may be a child molester. We need to get things fixed but for the life of me I have clue how to do it.
Posted on 11/17 1:38 PM | IP: Logged
Police are showing NO records of McQueary going to the police. Did he lie?
According to New York defense attorney Tom Harvey, who is following the case for The News, McQueary’s email claims are a “defense attorney’s dream.”
“Assuming the email is not a hoax, he’s making statements that are inconsistent with prior statements,” Harvey said.
Something isn't adding up with McQueary. If he is lying, then why? If he is telling the truth, then why are his statements inconsistent?
Posted on 11/17 3:06 PM | IP: Logged
Crossover, that's what I'm thinking. Is he a reliable witness?
Dude, I thought it was only one janitor that witnessed it and he won't be able to testify because he has dementia. I thought he told other janitors what he saw. Is there more than janitor that was an eye witness?
Posted on 11/17 3:09 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by psumike99: Crossover, that's what I'm thinking. Is he a reliable witness?
Dude, I thought it was only one janitor that witnessed it and he won't be able to testify because he has dementia. I thought he told other janitors what he saw. Is there more than janitor that was an eye witness?
No, I believe that is correct. The one janitor told his superior and with reluctance because he feared for his job. I don't get the dream part from a defense attorney's standpoint. Not at all. McQueary said he made sure it stopped and that he told the police. It is already well-documented that he met with a couple or three PSU officials, one of whom was the head of the campus police. That right there is telling the police.
I guess I am sensing a tone from some that McQueary is a loose cannon and some are "pulling" for the Sandusky defense team. His defense lawyer is a sociopath himself. The whole thing is sickening. Anyone who would be hoping for Sandusky to get off because of some inconsistencies between emails and statements to the grand jury is missing the larger point. And that is the disturbing nature of the events to which Sandusky has already admitted.
Posted on 11/17 8:08 PM | IP: Logged
^ No "pulling" for anyone here. I just find it interesting to follow after watching everyone jump the gun to immediately see everyone around Sandusky fired.
Well, I take that back. I do somewhat "pull" for JoePa. I still think they did him wrong through this whole ordeal. He was sentenced guilty before a fair trial of any criminal wrongdoing.
There are many things that make Sandusky look as guilty as sin... the delayed reaction to sexual abuse question, showering with the boys, multiple accusations. But there are some things that don't add up either... No police report of sexual child abuse, all of this JUST now coming out after years of silence, inconsistencies in McQueary's stories, others saying he never did anything sexual (although made them feel uncomfortable at times).
Personally, I don't see how 2 or 3 PSU officials failing to file the alleged complaint with the PA Police is considered well-documented.
We're still learning more nearly everyday. I don't think we've even scratched the surface yet.
Posted on 11/17 10:49 PM | IP: Logged
^I essentially agree with you. As for Joe Pa, I don't think he was unfairly treated and I don't believe he has been sentenced to anything. He was the head coach of a football team and program enduring a really awful scandal. Regardless of pending criminal or civil suits, his lack of stewardship for his program is enough to warrant his ouster.
But back to agreeing, I particularly agree with your last comment, about just beginning to scratch the surface. That is why I believe what we are looking at is a very large cover up.
Posted on 11/17 11:11 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by The Dude#: That is why I believe what we are looking at is a very large cover up.
Do you mean a possible cover up by Penn St? If so, I completely agree with that possibility if Sandusky is guilty.
If JoePa had anything to do with that cover up and he is convicted of a criminal act, then he should pay in full. If he didn't, then he was wronged and I hope he sues the univ for defamation of character.
This post was edited on 11/18 2:17 PM by crossoveryp
Posted on 11/18 2:16 PM | IP: Logged
^YES! After 60 or 70 posts, we have come to full agreement.
I apologize for my cynicism, but I see no way that Sandusky is not guilty and I also (sadly) see no way that Paterno didn't know what was going on.
It will play out and we shall see.
Posted on 11/18 3:32 PM | IP: Logged
^ LOL Dude... sorry if I came across that way as well. Nice to have a decent conversation even though there are some strong differing opinions, yet finding ways to agree as well.
Posted on 11/18 4:40 PM | IP: Logged
this is what i gather from the media (and sometimes people I talk to):
fans = boohoo, they lost their coach Paterno = boohoo, he lost his job with a $500,000+ pension sexually abused victims = very little sympathy in comparison to the others
moral of the story? another sensational story that America will follow like a hit TV show. entertainment > compassion
not surprising though.
Posted on 11/20 5:28 PM | IP: Logged
Someone who used to play there and is constantly being badgered by the media for info has said he is in absolute shock. He feels that if this is true it has been covered up from the top down.
Posted on 11/21 9:06 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by DFerryFan: sexually abused victims = very little sympathy in comparison to the others
Shouldn't that be "ALLEGEDLY" sexually abused victims?
Originally posted by coryfly: Someone who used to play there and is constantly being badgered by the media for info has said he is in absolute shock. He feels that if this is true it has been covered up from the top down.
Agreed... or we have a group of liars out for money. Not saying that's what these alleged victims are doing, but there are people out there who will do nearly anything for money. And there are people out there who will cover up nearly anything to win.
However, it's hard to believe that SOMEONE hasn't come forward before now. And its hard to believe that ALL of the ALLEGED victims are lying. That's what makes this is an interesting case, imo.
Posted on 11/21 9:44 PM | IP: Logged
^but crossoveryp, people have come forward in the past, years ago when McQueary reported what he saw, and also when the DA chose not to press charges after the parent confronted Sandusky about showering with her son.
That is the COVER UP!!!
I understand and agree with your point, in the main, but based on what we already know, what Sandusky has already admitted to, and his performance in the interview, I would lean heavily toward his guilt and a cover up as opposed to several kids/families fabricating similar stories to make money. I just don't see that.
Posted on 11/22 10:07 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by The Dude#: ^but crossoveryp, people have come forward in the past, years ago when McQueary reported what he saw, and also when the DA chose not to press charges after the parent confronted Sandusky about showering with her son.
If the PA police had record of McQueary's report I could agree. I sure as heck wouldn't shower with a bunch of small boys... But is that something you can press charges against? just curious.
Originally posted by The Dude#: I would lean heavily toward his guilt and a cover up as opposed to several kids/families fabricating similar stories to make money. I just don't see that.
I completely agree. But it's also hard for me to believe that even the DA and the entire PA Police Dept was part of a cover up without someone doing the right thing. Know what I'm saying? So many things on both sides that just makes me scratch my head.
Posted on 11/22 10:21 AM | IP: Logged
^definitely a head-scratcher, but just for the record, I do not think the Pa police is part of the cover up. I think the info was shielded from them. The University people (whoever they are) that should have reported to the police kept it quiet, in house, or whatever.
Again, I go back to McQueary. What does he stand to gain by saying he saw a grown man rape a small boy in a shower? This same grown man admitted to the mom of the boy that "my genitals might have touched him."
Huh? He is guilty as sin. And again, pardon my cynicism (if that is what it is).
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